Texas Wine and True Crime
We review Texas wines and discuss Texas true crime.
Texas Wine and True Crime
The Case of Brandon Woodruff and the Texas Innocence Project
Unlock the secrets behind wrongful convictions as we question whether personal details should ever cloud a quest for justice. Join us on a captivating journey through the Texas Innocence Project's crucial work in re-examining evidence and advocating for those who might be wrongfully incarcerated. Through this episode, we spotlight their collaboration with Longhorn Cellars and the complex case of Scott Peterson as examples of the challenging paths to uncovering truth amidst uncertainty.
Experience the chilling narrative of the 2005 murders of Dennis and Norma Woodruff in Royce City, Texas. We unravel the investigation that cast their son, Brandon, into the spotlight, scrutinizing his secret life and the potential biases it introduced. With a mix of intriguing testimonies, missing weapons, and a blood-stained dagger, we question the fairness of using personal lifestyles as a motive in legal proceedings, especially in small-town settings where prejudices may run deep.
As the Texas Innocence Project takes on Brandon Woodruff’s case, we explore their efforts to challenge the original investigation and the potential for new evidence to reshape his fate. Through discussions on untested hair samples and intriguing interview demeanor, we highlight the importance of thoroughness in the pursuit of justice. This episode promises an eye-opening exploration of how societal attitudes can impact legal outcomes and the ongoing fight for fairness in the courtroom.
www.texaswineandtruecrime.com
Welcome all of you on in true crime lovers. I'm Brandi and I'm Chris, and this is Texas wine and True Crime. Thank you for being here, friends, for this week's episode, the Texas Innocence Project case. Hi, chris.
Chris:Hi Brandy.
Brandy:Good to see you.
Chris:It's excellent to see you as well.
Brandy:We've had some really good wine and food that we want to tell all of our listeners about. Absolutely so let's jump into it. Burrow Blanco this month we have Longhorn Cellars on the show All month. All month, their wine all month. So exciting. This wine was absolutely delicious. It is a blended white of Albarino, vermentino and Pic-Pul Blanc, three of my favorites.
Chris:I really enjoyed it as well.
Brandy:Oh, it's so good, and it still feels like summer here in Texas.
Chris:I would agree with that, yeah.
Brandy:So white wine is tasting super delicious, even though we are we are jumping into fall and we'll have some reds. But, chris, what did you pair with this beautiful white blend?
Chris:I paired an herb crusted cod with beurre blanc sauce, as well as a big old fat glazed carrot and some rice pilaf.
Brandy:You should actually just name it beurre blanc sauce Beurre blanc To match the wine. I did use a little bit in the sauce as well, okay, but yes, I think it went really well.
Chris:I was kind of looking at this wine and the blend as well and it seemed like it said it went good with some cream sauces and I haven't really made a Burr Blanc ever here at the house and so I thought it's that's a light sauce to go, especially with cod, cod's kind of a light fish and whatever you kind of put with it to accompany it kind of absorbs those flavors.
Brandy:Well, it matched perfectly.
Chris:Thank you.
Brandy:And thank you Longhorn Cellars for being our wine of the month. We are um so excited to be coming down to fredericksburg chris november. The second is our live show at longhorn sellers yes, it's coming up so exciting.
Brandy:So please go, grab your tickets, come see us in fredericksburg. But, um, if you can't come to the show but you are in fredericks any other time, you need to visit our friends over at Longhorn Cellars. Chris, air, smack Dab, right in the middle of the heart of Fredericksburg. They have a wine club, a tasting room, a calendar of events. They've got some cool stuff going on over there. I cannot wait to be there.
Chris:And we're on that calendar.
Brandy:Yes, we are on that calendar.
Chris:Yeah, this was a really good wine though. Very yes, we are on that calendar. Yeah, this was a really good wine, though.
Brandy:Very easy drinking. I really liked it a lot. Yeah, so it's the first of the four, so hitting a home run out of the ballpark with these wines.
Brandy:So thank you, longhorn Cellars and thank you, chris, for pairing this amazing dish. Thank you All right friends. So we are going to jump into this case to this case. And, chris, I wanted to do this case because we are, you know, we're going to be doing some unsolved Texas Innocence Project case that I'm going to be, or we are going to be, delivering at Longhorn Sellers. So it kind of got me thinking about this particular case. We're not going to do this one at Longhorn Sellers, but so we decided to do it right here on our platform.
Brandy:And that is just looking at all what the Texas Innocence Project case, their active cases, right. So one thing I want to say about innocence projects is they do wonderful things. There are thousands and thousands of wrongly incarcerated people in our system, and especially in our system, that are convicted and, you know, tried convicted of murder, put in for life. Sometimes they're given death. And they do great things and they look at the evidence and if there is a you know, I would say a hint or a sniff of either a bad trial, an unfair jury, an unfair trial or really any piece of evidence that maybe wasn't considered in the initial investigation, this is what they do.
Chris:It's all pro bono as well.
Brandy:Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think there's probably a way that they are able to keep the funds up right to be able to do these cases.
Chris:Yes, but the incarcerated people are not.
Brandy:That's correct, yes, so. But I also want to say that just because an innocence project picks up a case, it doesn't necessarily mean they're not guilty.
Chris:Yeah, I think that's a good point to make.
Brandy:Yeah, and I think that if there is a reason I mean, these are professionals who are they're attorneys and these are professionals who are their attorneys and these are our professionals who are working for these organizations so if they believe that there's a reason to look at this evidence again and save a life or get someone out of prison that doesn't belong there, fantastic work. It's what, it's what our system needs. But, for instances, the Los Angeles Innocence Project has picked up Scott Peterson's case. Right Now I could say, oh well, you know, here's what I think about Scott Peterson. But I bet if I was talking to someone I don't know if they really care about the LA Innocence Project picking him up they would maybe still consider him guilty, right or not guilty, depending on their view of the case.
Chris:Yeah, I would agree with that as well.
Brandy:Yeah, so I think people. So again, I want to make sure that Innocence projects are highlighted and said out loud, because, man, they do some great work. They've exonerated a lot of people in this country, but they have picked up Brandon Woodruff's case and that's the one that we're going to be talking about tonight. So on October 18th 2005,. Tonight, so on October 18th 2005, a family friend of the Woodruffs is not able to get a hold of them. So in fact, chris, they tried getting a hold of them for about two days, and this is Dennis and Norma Woodruff. So we they are in Royce City.
Chris:Yeah, which is pretty local here.
Brandy:Yeah, so they actually, chris. They just recently moved. They used to live in Heath, texas, so the reason that they decided to move is because they have two children in college. So in order to save money, I guess, they moved downsized into a smaller house, more available funds for the kids. But these were very selfless people and they're dead. They're actually found in the house when nobody can get a hold of them.
Brandy:Um, they find dennis and norma who found the crime scene, so yeah, entered yeah, after the police entered um because the person who could not get a hold of them for two days, they called authorities and wanted to do a welfare check, I'll say a wellness check yeah. So the police arrived. They find the gruesome scene. Dennis is shot in the face once and stabbed nine times, and norma was shot multiple times and then her neck had been slashed.
Chris:Now, as the investigation, gruesome, for roy city as well too, very gruesome and these people were, yeah, and they're kind of new to town.
Brandy:I mean, what enemies do they have just sitting in Royce City, right, and Royce City probably doesn't see a lot of this, Maybe. I mean, this is 2005, so this is about 20 years ago and you know, and so was the that. I mean this was probably big news. I personally don't remember this case Just from like 20 years ago purposes, but then once I started reading about it, it kind of like was I was thinking, okay, wait, I have heard of this Because this, once they started investigating the son, Brandon Woodruff, they find out he's sort of living the secret double life. As the investigation is launched, Chris, in an attempt to find who did this, fingers start pointing at the son, so Brandon, who was living a secret double life that hardly anyone knew about. So they end up actually finding out that there were very few people who knew about his lifestyle.
Chris:Maybe not even a handful. Well, by all accounts, he was living a normal life, yeah that's correct.
Brandy:Yes, Going to college. Abilene Christian College.
Chris:And he was quite popular.
Brandy:Yes, he was very popular. In fact, in high school he was voted like most likely to succeed. He had a consistent girlfriend in high school.
Chris:Member of the FFA.
Brandy:Yeah, member of the FFA. I mean, he had a lot of friends and people really liked him and at the time, this when this happened, in October 2005,. He's 19 years old, so he's going to college, but he is the last one, chris, to see his parents alive, allegedly right, allegedly the last person to see them alive, and that's actually on October 16th of 2005. Remember, they're found two days later. So the ME will come back and say they died Sunday night between 9 and 11 o'clock pm, all right.
Brandy:So once investigators start looking into Brandon Woodruff, from the outside it looks like he's living as a normal 19-year-old right, going to college, has friends, goes and visits his parents. His older sister is actually going to college in Arkansas, so has a very good relationship with her. But they start to uncover a few things about Brandon Woodruff that people didn't know about him. The first thing, chris, is that he was dating men, not that that's a big deal at all, but when we talk about this in other cases, when things start to by the way, he was not forthcoming about this information to police and who came forward with that information?
Brandy:They start looking. Well, they realize, once they start talking to Brandon Woodruff, that he was the last one to see them, or at least they think.
Chris:But I mean, obviously the internet is not like it is now. And so whatever they did with living this secret life. None of his friends knew who did come forward with all this information about him.
Brandy:No, I think some knew. But I think once they start digging into his phone, once they start digging into it's 2005.
Chris:What kind of phones are people?
Brandy:having, or I don't know, maybe he had some sort of email account, email.
Chris:MySpace. Myspace, I mean, think about it, that's a long time ago. I mean, we don't have the phones like we have now.
Brandy:you probably have a phone that was a you know what do you call it?
Chris:like I had buttons. Yeah, that's right, it did you know?
Brandy:yeah, um, well, they start, they just, you know, they end up finding out that brandon, at the time, had a girlfriend. They start to question her, they just start to uncover these things. His story just isn't making much sense, right, and it's growing suspicion on him directly. And so police just start looking into Brandon Woodruff a little bit more, and here's what they found. So no, it doesn't matter, he's dating men. No, it doesn't. But does it matter that his parents were killed and they have to look at every single thing in this guy's background? Yeah, and could his parents have found out about this? Could there have been some sort of altercation Like this is what they're thinking. They find out a few more things about him. They actually find out that he is leaving the state to go and make adult movies, and I think this piece of it.
Chris:Do we know where? No.
Brandy:I don't know where I mean.
Chris:I'm sure it has where in the police reports Leaving the state.
Brandy:No, I just know that he was traveling to other locations outside of Texas to do this.
Chris:And maybe driving to Dallas too. I guess that would be the Well.
Brandy:Dallas is where he was hanging out in the clubs meeting other men. We have a fairly large yeah Well, and you know, I think it's a big city right and I there's a, there's some safety in numbers, you know, and you're not targeted in smaller areas. I mean, what was it like for him in heath, texas?
Chris:well in abilene christian college, that's right probably not a lot of um maybe, maybe not not a lot of gay clubs, probably in abilene no, probably, maybe.
Brandy:uh, abilene's growing, but but you're right, dallas, I mean, come on, they're in dallas, right. So you're gonna come to the city again, you're gonna meet more people, just like you coming to a bigger area, you know to do so. So, so he was doing these things. They started uncovering just some really you know interesting information about this guy and they start just questioning him and they don't believe that his story makes much sense.
Brandy:Upon digging just a little bit deeper, they're not only finding that his lifestyle may have had something to do with the fact that he could have done this to his parents, but it's also his story is kind of changing. So there's a lot of inconsistencies in the account of his whereabouts, on where he was that night. But they also had the testimony from friends that did not match his alibi. So he's giving them an alibi of where he was. I believe that alibi was with his girlfriend, so I'll talk about her in just a minute. But Jansen Barnett claimed that she and her boyfriend, robert Martinez, they had plans to meet with Brandon, but they said Brandon showed up much later, around 1020, which is not the timeline that he had given to authorities.
Chris:Yeah, to me that's what you investigate. I still, I still, am puzzled as to what his lifestyle.
Brandy:Because I think you have a lie. I think you have a lie here about time. You hold on, I think it's hold on. You have a lie about the alibi but I mean it's 2005.
Chris:Okay, Lots of people were still lying about being gay.
Brandy:I don't think it has anything to do with the secret life. He can have any secret life he wants. I don't think any of that matters in an investigation, unless it has something to do with motive. And could the motive had been, so why one? You're right, Chris, but I think they did look at these things first. I think it's faster to talk to people right and to get to know someone by asking questions. So I think they caught on real quick that the alibi just didn't check out.
Chris:I think the timeline didn't check out. I think that's part of the thing too, Like he if he has been living this kind of double life and so kind of keeping that um living, a lie of sorts.
Brandy:That's right.
Chris:And how. Because, like, when you read the stuff during the investigation, then cover this and cover that, like going to get clubs performing adult movies. Even so, like that to me doesn't even seem like it's relevant per se.
Brandy:Unless it has to do with motive. I still lack to see the motive in this thing, but we can press on, okay so no, I want to stay on this a second, because I think that it's important, because police are going to be looking at all of it. Right, they're going to be looking at the first of all, the closest people to these.
Chris:They're found on their couch that's the assumption that his parents, if they found out would be upset, sure saying that okay. Every parent would be upset by their son or daughter telling them that that's not always the case no so not always the case.
Brandy:That to me doesn't lead to any motive and most time, most of the time, if people are not accepting of your lifestyle they're not you're not going to turn around and kill them Right, like that's rare. So you have to wonder, and I think, what police started?
Chris:to do and we never know that they're not accepting.
Brandy:That's right. We're not going to ever know what happened in this house, right? Brandon Woodruff has finally given an interview this past August of 2020. And he's been behind bars for 13 years and he spent 13,. He's been behind bars for 13 years and he was given life and he hasn't talked about this at all. But he has always maintained his innocence and he told 2020, you know, I didn't do this to my parents and so I, you know, I think that they're looking at, they're looking. You know. It's interesting, chris. You bring up a good point, because if being gay is not a motive, but then you look at the fact that our Texas Innocence Project picks this up because they believe he was wrongly convicted because of his lifestyle.
Chris:I think that's a big part of it. I mean, really, it's all of his inconsistencies, that's right. Where he was, not the fact that he was gay.
Brandy:That's right.
Chris:So I don't know, like I said, when they say they discover that, is that really a discovery? You know what I mean.
Brandy:I guess he wasn't forthcoming with the information about where he was, what he was probably doing. I mean, they probably will they end up finding out a lot about this guy and where he was and what he says he was actually doing. So, chris, I think they just kind of said this guy's not forthcoming about the questions we're asking him. There's inconsistencies in his alibi and the timing we're now talking to people and getting an idea. I think it was just all of it and they moved forward, but they focused on him.
Chris:It's a smaller town. That's right, and they want these kind of cases solved right, not super gay friendly, and so that probably was why they focused on that, because, of course, if you can be gay, you could kill somebody, right?
Brandy:That's right.
Chris:I mean, I'm not saying that, I'm just. You know, I think that's right. A lot of fuss with me over that, but that's just my opinion.
Brandy:Very true, chris. I want to mention magic mind real quick, if we can. I want to talk about their nano encapsulation technology, which is why, chris, we take a shot every morning. Um, what do you? What do you call it? Your, your brain power food?
Chris:Reclaim my brain.
Brandy:Reclaim your brain, chris. So a few things about this brand Magic Mind Vitamin infused tastes great, clinically backed ingredients, increases efficacy, easy on the stomach. It doesn't replace your coffee. We have it right along with our coffee, but there's just so many benefits to trying Magic Mind. What's your favorite thing about it, chris?
Chris:Well, I think the fact that it works you know it's not. I of course have tried every probably energy and shot or whatever you know, and that, to me, was the. What I really liked about it was kind of the clarity you had after drinking it yes. And it works really quick. I mean I usually will take it in the morning on my way to work. I have a very short drive and I mean I'm not being very honest by the time I get there.
Brandy:You know it's kind of rare to get on.
Chris:And I don't even have any coffee on my way to work. That's right, I might have a cup when I get there, but it's it doesn't kind of leave you with that letdown, I guess.
Brandy:Yeah.
Chris:What do you call it?
Brandy:I guess the fade, or whatever that's right, it's not about the caffeine in it.
Chris:It has a very minute amount of caffeine.
Brandy:Yeah, and in fact. But it kicks in right when you need it to, which is why I love it. It gives me clarity. I take a shot, have it with my coffee, come in, start my day. So what you can expect is a sharper mind and smooth, calm energy. Consistent daily use builds the benefits of optimizing a mental performance and supporting a balanced mood and motivation over time. Chris, our friends need to grab this at magicmindcom and you can use the code Texas20. All right, Chris.
Brandy:So Brandon Woodruff is now being looked at by police and they've got a lot of questions for him. They've got a lot of questions for friends. But here's something else. So a neighbor named Randall Lunds, who lives near the old Woodruff residence in Heath, residence in Heath he admitted to seeing Brandon at the property in Heath between 10 pm and 11 pm on the night of the murder. So what's he doing there? Well, they end up.
Brandy:In June of 2008, a family member finds a dagger in the barn of the Woodruff's old house in Heath, Texas. So Dennis Woodruff's blood, Chris, ends up being on this weapon. Brandon Woodruff's former college roommate testified that dagger was the same one Woodruff had in his dorm room. Authorities could not conclude if the dagger found was the murder weapon. But Chris Woodruff denies that the weapon is his, that he has ever used it on his father. But this is what you have an eyewitness, and then you have someone that actually that he actually leaves it there. So this isn't uncommon. We see people hide things all the time rather than getting rid of them. So few people testified that that is exactly the same kind of knife he had in his dorm room, and so what do you do with that? I mean, it has the father's blood on it.
Chris:Well, I think we discussed this before. I mean, I don't know, I have a lot of knives.
Brandy:Yes.
Chris:Cut myself on a lot of those knives. I'm sure my blood is probably on a lot of those knives, so I don't know. Was it one that maybe his dad owned and he got it Did?
Brandy:he cut himself? I don't know.
Chris:How much blood Was it cleaned? And they found a scan amount. That was one thing I really couldn't determine, Like was it blood covered or did they, you know, was it cleaned and they saw like very trace amounts, and so I'm not sure I mean, yes, that is pretty damning, I will say. But you know, like I said, I assume he would.
Brandy:I would assume it was cleaned off and then they tested it for blood and found a lot of my knives.
Chris:If they came here and I ended up stabbed, they may look.
Brandy:I mean most people don't close their knife or leave a knife bloody right like you, somebody I would know you wipe it off, but I mean I.
Chris:I can honestly say, like the other day, I cut my finger and I don't think I um washed it. I just wiped it off on my pant leg or whatever, like a redneck would do. So I mean I don't know, you know, I mean that happens a lot, and so yeah so I don't know, like said, did the knife belong to his father in the past? Who knows was it? I mean, couldn't find a lot of that information that was like was it blood covered or what? Did they just analyze it and solve scandals?
Brandy:Michelle Lee. Chris, the mother of Woodruff's girlfriend at the time, also contacted law enforcement to report that a gun and bullets were missing from her home. Woodruff had been in her home the weekend before his parents were found dead. Had been in her home the weekend before his parents were found dead. Investigators compared a bullet found at the crime scene with a bullet from the Lee home and said they believed they were consistent. The Lee's gun was never found, but investigators believe it was the same caliber as the weapon used in the crime A murder weapon. Chris has never been recovered and again, woodruff denies stealing this gun.
Chris:And when you say believe, though, is that definitive.
Brandy:I think they probably it was the same caliber, right? I think it was similar enough for them to. You know, sometimes it's like when you're looking at the bullet fragments and you compare it, they are, they have to like shoot it, so I'm sure they tested it. They have to shoot it, so I'm sure they tested it. Yeah, ballistics probably tested it and shot from a similar gun and determined that it was most likely this type of weapon. Now Michelle Lee will admit that she didn't know when the gun had gone missing. She just couldn't find the gun. Somebody clearly had taken it, but she could not tell police when that may have been taken.
Chris:Because she didn't really know and they never found that gun, they never found it. So then they didn't shoot anything or do any ballistics testing.
Brandy:No, but I mean they found. But she had ammunition for the weapon and knew what kind of gun it was. So they probably got another dummy gun right and compared it and shot him.
Chris:No, each gun is pretty unique.
Brandy:They have when they find a caliber at a crime scene, they don't necessarily have the murder weapon. They get a similar gun and they shoot it to see what kind of damage it would do to the bullet. Is it consistent?
Chris:Yeah, but every barrel has rifling in it. That's what they tell if they find a gun they can look at the spent bullet that's in the body that's right compare it to the rifling. They don't have this, they're just saying it's the same caliber right and there's a lot of caliber, you know. I mean like I don't know I think they're.
Brandy:I think you raise a great point it could be a very common. That's right I don't know that. I think you raise a great point. It could be a very common.
Chris:That's right. I don't know that. But we could never really find what the caliber was. But the gun is missing. Nobody can find it. That's right so that is once again another red flag.
Brandy:Yeah, gun's missing Is never found. She did admit that he knew where the gun was, we believe it's the same caliber.
Chris:We believe these things Like I would think, I'd want to, like, I'm sure.
Brandy:Well, it raises questions.
Chris:Well, I'm sure that this bullet here was a 9mm. It was a 9mm that was at the house. It's gone. That's right, so we can put those two together.
Brandy:Which is what they did, which is why they're not definitive, which is why I think the Texas Innocence Project has picked up this case I think there's some questions in it right, and the organization Texas Innocence Project. When they decided to take a look at this case, they basically said that there was prejudice against him due to his sexuality and that played a role in his conviction. So in April of 2022, several people went before the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals in Austin and protested free Brandon Woodruff. His family has supported him. His grandmother. What was his trial?
Chris:That is, I'm trying to think of that counting.
Brandy:Yeah, I don't think I have it right here where it was, but people were coming forward and saying that you know they wanted him freed.
Chris:Like did he have a public defender or he had an attorney?
Brandy:Yeah, I'm sure he had an attorney, because that's the one thing he's on a death. I mean he was on a life case, I mean he's on a capital murder case. That takes money, though.
Chris:If you have no money, you don't just get an attorney, you have to take a public defender. Because I would think one thing too all the evidence that they entered regarding his sexuality and going to gay bars, yada, yada, yada. I don't even know how that's admissible, because we're. It's purely speculation that you say. Well, his parents found out he, they were upset, they had an argument, they didn't approve, he killed them it's called circumstantial evidence.
Brandy:They have the bodies right. That's the one piece of evidence that's always missing when you're trying circumstantial right. You don't have a body. Well, they have a body and what do they notice? They notice that these people are, like, overly killed. There's a little bit of passion when it comes to stabbing someone nine times and shooting them I still that.
Chris:I still stand behind, though I don't know what him being gay and dancing in gay bars and whatever else he was doing in his gay lifestyle necessitates murder because, like I said, we have this well of course you don't think that, but you don't, you are.
Brandy:I mean, but think about that. What if you are someone like him who let's say he did this, okay, because that I, you know, he's. I all I know is the fact. And the fact is that he was found guilty and he's serving a life sentence in Tennessee, colony, texas, at Mark W Michael Union.
Chris:So he's there, I just think you look at the evidence, his questionable stories, cell phone records that show that he was somewhere in the proximity.
Brandy:Whatever email live space, whatever it's using, I still don't.
Chris:I think that was a reason to get 12 people in whatever little town that they did this in, to convict him even further and not like the guy. But I would think that being gay is completely inadmissible, because I don't think that still points to a motive, because I mean, you're making an assumption that his parents would disapprove, and that's something you know. I don't know. Like I said, it's not like he stole money from him or whatever. I mean, I think those are a little different things. I just don't know. But that's just me, whatever you know. But that's why this texas instance project has picked this up to you. Perhaps shed some light on those things, who knows?
Brandy:well and I know so. So bonnie woodruff, uh, grandmother, um, she basically says she knows that Brandon was wrongfully judged, right and you know. And murder, like you said, why would he do that? She's like I know he didn't do that. Someone else is letting him basically take the blame for this, but they do believe that whoever did this to this couple knew them and knew them well. There wasn't any sort of forced entry into the home. They looked into all of this. They'd never thought a stranger or someone who would have had any beef with a family that just moved into Roy's city would have had, and so- I don't doubt any of that.
Brandy:And then they just go back to common sense, right? What do we always say? What were they doing 24 to 40 hours before their death? Well, they're hanging out with their son having pizza, which he said was a normal night, and then he leaves. Could he be telling the truth? Sure, but you know he's lying up front and that's a big problem. And you know what. That's a big problem and you know what. Don't lie, because this is what happens.
Chris:I just think he could have killed him for another reason.
Brandy:Okay, what would that reason be?
Chris:That I don't know. Okay, interesting, I don't know, because if he was heterosexual, Okay Then what's his motive?
Brandy:But these are secrets, Chris. I want you to think about this. These are secrets that people closest to him don't even know about him. He can be doing this and I don't care if he's doing this or not. He's a 19-year-old guy. He can do whatever he wants, but if it has to do with motive, if it has anything to do with motive, then they're going to care about this and look at it.
Chris:And if he's lying up front— but if he was heterosexual okay is there a motive? What's the motive?
Brandy:that's not a secret, though this if he was not, if they knew he was heterosexual and he was chris, he had a girlfriend at the time. I think he dated both I wouldn't even say.
Chris:Apparently some people knew about this.
Brandy:It couldn't have been that big of a secret it was a secret, nobody really in his family to find out that he's doing gay porn films yeah, which is a big thing. Chris dancing. Who do you just meet and go do that dancing at a club, right?
Chris:dancing at a strip club, whatever somebody. I mean, you don't just find that out. Somebody knew that stuff and somebody already kind of knew those things and they, I mean, how did they get the information you know? I mean, well, I'm sure they got it from a few sources.
Brandy:Looking into his background, kind of knew those things and they, I mean, how did they get the information? You know what I mean. Well, I'm sure they got it from a few sources looking into his background, really finding out his alibi, finding out, pulling records, who knows if he traveled, if they ended up finding out that this guy was traveling with you know, pulling you know, and then you and then you realize, well, why is he traveling to these places? So I think there was a lot of evidence behind some of this stuff and it was kind of police felt. It was probably a really big thing to keep. There's a lot going on in this guy's background and he's just doing studying at Abilene Christian University. That's who his parents think he is.
Chris:Sounds like he was making money.
Brandy:Well, I know, but not everyone. But I just want you to think about that. There's a reason. These were secrets to him.
Chris:And there's a reason that that his parents didn't know. I think it was a secret, but given it was 2005 and people were still reluctant to come out, that's the only reason I think it was a secret.
Brandy:And that could have been why he didn't tell police. Maybe he didn't want and maybe he he's 19. He probably. I don't think he has a right to tell police.
Chris:How do you tell police what your sexuality is? Why? How do you tell police I go to gay clubs. I go dance at gay clubs.
Brandy:Because they ask questions like what do you do on your free time? Where have you been? What were you doing?
Chris:I don't think a police officer has ever asked me who I sleep with? No, but that's not the direct question.
Brandy:But they're going to get to that? Who were you involved with? Because if they didn't, if they thought it was him but they thought maybe he brought someone else in to do it, then you want to know those things right. Who are your friends? Who are you hanging out with? He's 19. So I think it was a. You know, if he's innocent, then maybe he should have just been a little bit more forthcoming. But Chris the alibi didn't check out, so they've got a problem with his timeline. No, no.
Chris:I think there's a tremendous amount of evidence to point that this guy could be guilty. What I think, though? Is introducing all this extra extraneous stuff, which to me has no relevance, can also somehow taint a jury.
Chris:You could have a you know, a group of people that are against this there are still a lot of people that look down on people who are gay, and so that to me is a tactic used by the prosecution to paint him in a negative light, in a villain or a demon to some degree. I mean, listen, I've grown up here my whole life. That's a smaller town. I imagine a lot of gay people get out of Royce City as fast as they can to go someplace that's a little more friendly, like here in Dallas.
Chris:We have a very gay friendly community here and I just that's the one part I disagree with this whole thing Because I don't. I think that to me it's a tremendous amount of evidence, but I think that can affect a jury and their mind, and you know a lot of things, especially given the time when this was occurring and also what part of the country you're in what part of the country you're in, what part of the state, who knows?
Brandy:you know? Like I said, that's a that can be very damning. Yes, uh, well, we know we had a. We know they had a cell phone, chris, because they did pull records into that phone. Um, and the problem with his alibi is that the window of opportunity to commit the murders was there. I mean, they could just never account for the time that the estimated time of death was for this couple and and I think that's their biggest problem with this case is that he was supposed to meet people but then he was late, but then he wasn't where he was supposed to be and then cell phone records say something completely different.
Chris:Like I said, there's a tremendous amount of evidence which points to him.
Brandy:I mean there's a tremendous amount of evidence which points to him. I mean, I think it almost. I think they also said it would have had to been done in like 20 minutes, but I guess that's probably still plenty of time to do that, but I don't know. I think that that's really the timeline will only make sense if you can kind of get out of this 20 minute gap. But they're saying that that gap is enough to tell them that this guy could have probably done this.
Chris:I think he could have done it. I just don't think it's because he's gay.
Brandy:Okay. Well, we don't know what that conversation was with his parents. So if he is guilty, why would he do that?
Chris:There could have been a number of reasons. Just like anybody else who kills their parents, I mean there's who knows what that reason is.
Brandy:Well, chris, it's usually money, sex or power.
Chris:I think they're trying to paint the motive and the reason was because, he was gay.
Chris:Maybe his parents found out, they got upset and angry. He couldn't deal with it. He had to deal with him like this to me that they have made up a motive, you know I mean because it could be anything. Who knows, it could have been over money. Well, we don't know that, but I think they have a lot of times. You know the motive we have. We it's very clear, like I don't think this is a clear motive, just the fact that he you are absolutely 100, correct.
Brandy:We have no idea what happened in that house. You're right, and I think this is why the texas innocence project well, chris, and also they found a clump of hair in the woman's hand okay, long blonde hair and they never tested this hair. And this is a big piece of why the texas innocence project has picked this up. They want this hair tested.
Chris:I mean, this is august of 2024 yeah, because they're saying that the advantage to him if his parents are dead.
Brandy:I mean he's 19 they don't have money, really, do they?
Chris:there's no. I mean, what is he other?
Brandy:than no.
Chris:To help pay for their kids in college, they downsize their house I mean I'm gonna, I'm going to have somebody else do it and I'm going to gain, like there really was nothing to gain from this other than, you know, just being mad and having them dead. So I don't know, but those are my feelings on it.
Brandy:Yeah, no, I agree, and I think there are lots of questions, which is why that they have picked up this case. They want the hair tested. They, you know, want probably to look at all of the records. I'm sure, hopefully, maybe they probably have that by now. Sometimes it's hard to get some of that evidence from the police when the Innocence Project picks these up, but they're gonna. They just want some of this tested and I and I think one.
Chris:I think too the fact that they didn't test the hair.
Brandy:Yes, they have it that is um very interesting well, I know, and not only that, another case that I was looking at the texas innocence project.
Chris:There was a that is direct evidence to point who may have been in that house, not a gun that they can't find. However, the blade that they did find with blood is a very, like I said, that points a lot of fingers towards him, but that to me, like that, tells you who was in that house and who is potentially responsible? Yeah, law enforcement never tested the hair and they probably won't be able to find it if there's a real job and um, yeah, they're.
Brandy:They're just um, yeah, that I mean, that's just one piece of of evidence that they say um could prove his innocence, but as of right now, he is sitting in prison. Um, they are trying to um keep looking for pieces to put together to show that he's innocent, but he has always said that he didn't kill his parents. He told 2020, I did not kill my parents at all, which I find interesting language I don't want to get into. But sometimes when you end that sentence, there are people who look at body language and things people say and sometimes when you put something on it into that sentence, you almost like circle back so like I didn't kill them at all, I didn't kill them a little, I didn't kill them a lot, I didn't kill them at all. And so you know, I don't know. I would be interested to see what some, what people thought about this interview with 2020 and just his demeanor.
Chris:So you can find it, people can find it. I'm more interested to see another trial.
Brandy:Yeah, I mean I think that there is a reasonable doubt to his conviction. I mean, again, they didn't have the weapon, they didn't test the hair. I mean there's a lot of things that still are to be discovered in this case. So we shall see if the Texas Innocence Project gets anywhere with the case of Brandon Woodruff. Thank you,