Texas Wine and True Crime
We review Texas wines and discuss Texas true crime.
Texas Wine and True Crime
Challenging Justice: The Case of Robert Roberson and the Fight for Truth
Is justice truly served when new evidence is ignored? Our latest episode challenges the integrity of the legal system as we scrutinize the controversial case of Robert Roberson, a Texas death row inmate who faces execution despite emerging evidence suggesting a wrongful conviction. With serious gaps in the initial diagnosis of Shaken Baby Syndrome, leading figures now question their past conclusions, casting doubt on the very foundation of Roberson’s conviction. We explore the unsettling reality of how the justice system handles such cases, and the implications of the 2013 junk science law.
The relentless pursuit of truth by the Texas Innocence Project brings into sharp focus the biases and systemic flaws that can plague legal proceedings. As they battle for a reevaluation of Roberson’s case, we uncover the emotional complexities involved, including the possible misinterpretation of his autistic behavior by medical staff. With the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles upholding the execution, the discussion turns to broader themes of due process and the urgent need for reform.
Amidst these heavy discussions, we offer a moment of warmth and reflection, sharing our experience of pairing a rich Alicante Boucher wine with a comforting homemade chili, as the first cold snap of the season sets in. This episode not only highlights the critical importance of pursuing truth and justice but also finds moments of solace and humanity in the face of life's injustices. Join us as we balance the weight of these vital issues with a shared commitment to truth and compassion.
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www.texaswineandtruecrime.com
Welcome all of you wine and true crime lovers. I'm Brandi and I'm Chris and this is Texas Wine and True Crime. Lovers, I'm Brandi and I'm Chris, and this is Texas Wine and True Crime. Thank you for being here, friends, for this week's episode, the Conviction and Death Sentence of Robert Robertson. Hey, chris.
Speaker 2:Hey Brandi.
Speaker 1:All right, big case, big news today in this case. So we're going to jump into that in a second, but right now we're going to talk about the wine we're having tonight and the meal and the meal. And the meal we had tonight. So we are enjoying an Alicante Boucher, which is a red wine. First of all, it's delicious.
Speaker 2:I loved it.
Speaker 1:I mean loved it. It's so good. I don't even know if I've ever had an Alicante Boucher have you.
Speaker 2:I believe at some point we've had it.
Speaker 1:I thought it was great, though it was very good.
Speaker 2:Kind of oaky, oaky nose, very black curranty, very luscious wine.
Speaker 1:Yes, very luscious wine, Longhorn Cellars. Thank you again for sending us this one. So, chris, you're going to tell them in just a sec what you paired it with. But Longhorn Cellars brings you the superior handcrafted wines with the hallmarks of genuine Texas hospitality big, bold and proud, and the very best. This full-bodied, smooth and jammy wine pairs well with roast beef, prime rib and tomato-based pasta dishes.
Speaker 2:Now, you did not pair it with any of those. No, but jammy is a really good, very good description.
Speaker 1:Very good description, all right, but what did you pair with this wine tonight?
Speaker 2:Well, since we had our first cold snap, we did. Here locally.
Speaker 1:Brr.
Speaker 2:In the Great Farmers Branch.
Speaker 1:I think this is the first day our air conditioner did not turn on in the last six months. Probably so it's been six months.
Speaker 2:So you, um I, I had a something in mind, but you wanted me to make chili. I did. To mark our first cold, I mean it's not that cold. But yeah, you're a chili girl, cause it was chili outside and so I made a beef and pork chili with roasted corn. So I'm sure any true, true blue Texan or red Texan, whatever you are, maybe um sees the picture of this and probably think it'd be actual, absolute heresy, uh, to put roasted corn in chili.
Speaker 1:but you do? What did I think? I think I could have had another bowl of it, but it was kind of spicy and good and then and then I made a nice big wagon wheel of um Monterey Jack, um and um cheddar cornbread. Oh my gosh, your cornbread was smelled so sweet coming out of the oven. I had that.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it wasn't sweet.
Speaker 1:I know, but whatever, whatever you were doing.
Speaker 2:all of the love, all the sweetness.
Speaker 1:I don't dig on the sweet cornbread, no, I know you don't, but it was so good and I had an extra piece of cornbread Excellent. And yeah, because I like to dip it in my chili and thank you for making chili, and it was spicy. I know you're not like the biggest chili person.
Speaker 2:And I love chili. I, I like chili. I know I kind of bug you for it over the winter. I'm turning into an old person, so you got to eat chili around five to make sure it goes post-pylorus and gets down nice and deep in the gut.
Speaker 1:By bedtime.
Speaker 2:Yeah, by bedtime, before we lay down, sack out. But yeah, it was a nice pairing. And then, once again, the wine. I really enjoyed it, it was great.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's so good, good and we can't wait to be at longhorn sellers right there in fredericksburg. So, friends, if you're planning a trip to fredericksburg, don't forget to stop by our friends at longhorn sellers. But we will see everyone on november 2nd, so if you haven't got tickets to that show, come and see us. It's going to be a great time. It's a weekend of celebrations. We have a show anniversary, a wedding anniversary, and we're going to be doing a live show at Longhorn Cellars. So grab your tickets. Thank you, longhorn Cellars and Chris, thank you.
Speaker 2:You're welcome.
Speaker 1:All right. So we're going to talk about a case of Robert Robertson, chris. We are talking live tonight, on Wednesday. He is set to be executed tomorrow at 7 pm in Texas.
Speaker 2:No stay.
Speaker 1:So clemency was denied today. We're going to get into that in just a bit, but no stay yet. We have not heard from Governor Abbott just yet, but he is scheduled to die tomorrow by lethal injection, despite evidence indicating he was wrongfully convicted for the death of his two-year-old daughter, Nikki, who police back then right and medical personnel felt that they were looking at a abused child that had probably been inflicted with Shaken Baby Syndrome. This is the first guy in our country's history to be put to death for Shaken Baby Syndrome. There's a lot of questions about this, so we're going to kind of get into this, but we are. You know we're talking about this because we talk about finding justice all the time.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And we're going to talk about a lot of people who thinks that Texas is about to do a big disservice and put this man to death.
Speaker 2:Looking at the evidence today versus in 2002.
Speaker 1:That's right and medical professionals who have come forward and said please, texas, look at this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think initially too. I mean, it's the responsibility of an emergency room to bring anything like this, any signs of potential abuse or something like that, to the law enforcement's attention, be it a baby or an adult.
Speaker 1:That's right. So shaken baby syndrome is what he was convicted on back in 2003. And he was sentenced to death. The Texas Innocence Project has been. They picked up this case. They've been working with supporters, certain Texas legislators Chris, there have been people who in the Texas legislator in Austin who have come forward, who in the Texas legislator in Austin who have come forward, delivered messaging that this needs to stop and that this guy needs this evidence needs to be looked at just one more time before he's put to death, because you can't reverse that.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think too often, the people that are, you know, standing for this to stick.
Speaker 1:they don't like to lose, and so, if to you know it's interesting, I'm not seeing a lot of that about this case. You don't see a lot of people going well, this guy did it. In fact, his own family and friends say he was like a gentle giant. He was friendly, loving, he loved his daughter. I mean people. I can't find one thing besides the original and I want you to think about this the original doctors, the original medical professionals who said what they saw. A few have recome back and said you know what? Maybe we made a mistake.
Speaker 1:Chris, the lead detective who I'm going to talk about, the guy who basically said he did this and got him to trial and got him sentenced to death is now saying he was wrong. The lead investigator is saying I was wrong, texas, let's look at this again. So this is. I haven't seen this much overwhelming support for a death row clemency. Stay in a lot in um as long as I can remember. This is a full force of people, medical professionals, um legislators john grisham is one of them. He's a big supporter of him and people are just asking for a reprieve.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the lead detective, like I mentioned, said he was wrong in this case. In fact, he's been begging the courts and the governor for a long time, chris, to save this guy's life. This is not something that just started this week because it's coming up. This has been an ongoing movement for this man. Those calls to actions were heard today in front of the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles six members and they voted unanimously to deny the request and made the decision to uphold the execution, the decision they still want him to be in jail, though like released right I think I said six members, I think there's seven members, because it can't be um.
Speaker 1:So I'm sorry, say, ask your question this is more about him not being put to death that's right but still being jailed oh, of course, because, really, what they're asking is to look at new evidence, which would then, if he didn't, if he was denied due process right, which is what they're claiming from the beginning then he gets a new trial and that's the ultimate goal.
Speaker 1:Right is to get the evidence to say, hey, you know what, there's enough here, and maybe some of his, maybe some of the things that didn't come up in the first trial, or maybe things that were given in the first trial that were false. One was accusations that he was an abuser, and it was absolutely untrue. But that is the position that the prosecution took when they were trying to to put this guy behind bars. I mean, this was. I mean, from the beginning, they thought this is exactly what he had done, so the decision came as lawmakers raised the concerns that the courts were not properly implementing a groundbreaking 2013 junk science law. Now, chris, this law was intended basically to provide the ability to get justice for people that have been convicted based on scientific evidence that has since changed or been debunked.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I find it interesting too, because I was kind of reading about junk science and it didn't really seem to lead to this per se. You know what I mean. Like there is such a thing as this. I mean, I guess to some degree, but um, you have to investigate it further to determine if that's the actual cause.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, to me junk. Science is a lot more about, um, you know, miracle cures and things like that, you know well, I think the reason they're calling it this is because, well, one that's the law to help someone who's been convicted, right so like to me.
Speaker 2:I think people have just gotten maybe a little bit smarter about investigating this sort of you know, because I mean I think, like I said, they, they show up like that in the ER and unfortunately I think I may not say biased or whatever, but especially depending on what sort of ER you work in like I mean if a child comes into, I mean you work in a hospital.
Speaker 1:You don't work in the into, I mean you work in a hospital. You don't work in the yard, but you work in the hospital. If you see a child coming in with bruises on them, what is the first instinct? I don't see children.
Speaker 2:We don't do pediatrics, but I mean, you see, some adults come in and that's what I mean they look a little little lumped up or something. I mean, that's my first thing. I asked is how'd that happen?
Speaker 2:you know, that's why we ask people too. It's a very specific question. You ask every patient do you feel safe at home, you know, and if sometimes, I mean even if it's a matter of having to remove somebody from the room, because, yes, you will see some signs like that, and so you do have to raise those questions and I think, unfortunately, you get a little myopic when looking at a particular patient population and so you never know. I mean, I'm not saying it's right, but I mean it's also not necessarily wrong too, because they are advocating for the patient, I think.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. So the lead investigator, who ends up at the hospital when this is happening because they were called right Police, were immediately notified. There's probably a police person at the hospital, right? So he's right there on the scene and he describes the chaos of nurses, doctors, people trying to save this little girl and the chaos that was ensuing. And the father, to them, showed zero to no emotion, seemed a little bit emotionless. Seemed a little bit emotionless based on what was happening. But but what they did not know at the time is that he's autistic and that lack of emotion that seems to me and the reaction may not be what a normal person is, and that is the fact.
Speaker 2:Right, change the whole how you're represented at trial too, though, because then you have to also look at the mental capacity to understand that situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I don't even think they took his autism into factor when they had this trial. I know, I just you know what I mean, though, like I don't think, and I think that's the piece, also part of the due process, to say, just you know, based on on his condition and his autism, he doesn't necessarily cry or react like other people In Wisconsin or whatever.
Speaker 2:What's the series we watched? Who you know was for raping the girl in Dumpter Car at the wrecking yard or whatever. Oh, yeah, they let him out and then they got ahold of his nephew or something like that, who was mentally challenged and kind of under coercion, as they say, convince him to make about what they did when.
Speaker 1:And they're both still sitting there too. Yeah, so all right. Well, hours after the board's decision, his lawyers, chris, filed a request for stay of execution and a petition for relief from the US Supreme Court. At the US Supreme Court, there's been no word from Governor Abbott's team. Abbott can give him a 30 day reprieve, chris. Now he can do this one time. He can give a one time reprieve, but he cannot defy the board's recommendation against clemency. All right, so he can't say, well, we're giving up. You know he can't go against what they've, what they've decided. But he can give this guy another 30 days to at least look at the evidence.
Speaker 1:Chris, I have seen Governor Abbott do this in, I would say, more guilty-facing people. I would say the guilt was really pushing on that particular person and Governor Abbott had given them a 30-day reprieve. I think even one was maybe even longer than 30 days. I think he gave one to Ivan Cantu, if I can recall. One to Ivan Cantu, if I can recall. So I think Governor Abbott should at least let people look at this. I think there's enough there for him to at least maybe what's another 30 days to give this guy just an opportunity.
Speaker 1:Because what if he is innocent and I mean this is the thing that is so hard about. The death penalty for me is innocent and I mean this is the thing that is so hard about the death penalty for me is the. I mean imagine, okay, this guy is going to be going getting lethal injection tomorrow at 7 pm, okay, this is real time right now, and he's sitting in a cell thinking about this. If he's guilty, well, that is the law of the and that was his punishment, and then that that is exactly what will happen to him.
Speaker 1:But if he is innocent, and he's sitting there thinking about this and thinking about the 22 years he has spent in prison and knowing that they're going to take his life and he didn't do this, and for us to be, for Governor Abbott, just to be able to say you know what? Okay, what does it hurt to just give another 30 days? They spend enough tax dollars and enough money to keep them on death row for 22 years, which is a huge problem in this country anyways. But again, I don't know how much time that is for people, but lethal injection and death penalty used to come much quicker 20, 30, 40 years ago. So if you're already using the resources to keep someone there. What's another 30 days? Especially when you have medical scientists coming forward saying that this evidence needs to be looked at from a medical, scientific point of view.
Speaker 2:I would agree.
Speaker 1:All right. So he has argued that his conviction was based on the unfounded shaken baby syndrome diagnosis given to his daughter, which presumed the abuse and did not consider the illnesses she had before her death. Or and it also didn't consider Chris the medication that was given to her by a doctor because of her, because she was sick. So prosecutors maintained that she suffered multiple traumas that were clearly abuse, traumas that were clearly abuse. But what the actual autopsy ended up showing was that she had pneumonia in both lungs, she had pre-existing conditions for which she was prescribed opioids that are now banned from children, and she had undiagnosed sepsis. She also fell out of her bed, which is why he ended up bringing her into the ER.
Speaker 1:But, chris, she had all these things and I'm thinking to myself okay, first of all, how does a parent, how does it get this far? Can you have a reaction? Can a child? Okay, what do you think they're talking about? That's not suitable for children nowadays. The only thing I could really find was codeine. So it says like now, you don't give codeine to any kids less than 12 years old, right, they have to be over 12. Like the CDC for children.
Speaker 2:I guess we would have to know what she was getting the prescribed opioids for.
Speaker 1:So I think it was the lung infection, I think she was sick and they also have the preexisting conditions. Again, I don't have the actual report of everything that but I know what came in the autopsy.
Speaker 2:I guess I don't know what, um, I don't know. I guess I don't know what I don't know. I guess I'd have to see what you would be prescribed. So she had a lung condition initially, for which she was prescribed the opioids.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it was prescribed opioids and she ended up having Opioids were like a cough suppressant or something like that, which is why I thought it was codeine, and she had pneumonia in both lungs that showed up in the autopsy.
Speaker 2:They know she had preexisting conditions with the chest and they also know that the opioids in the medicine she was given was fibrosis or something, but I think that's um, I don't know. I guess we had to dig a little deeper and find out what the condition was exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but CF, well, I mean, and she's two years old so that's a tough one because with cf you there's treatment to that, but that's a daily regimen of treatment for for cf.
Speaker 2:so I think that's more breathing treatments and like the little thing that'll be on your back and kind of knock the phlegm loose and stuff like that. But how do?
Speaker 1:you get sepsis. I mean, I know how you get it, but I guess is, I guess I'm, I'm going with like the neglect thing. Okay, he's already on death row.
Speaker 2:They've convicted him of killing his daughter is an infection. You usually get an infection. You usually get sepsis if your body has an infection. So if she developed pneumonia in both lungs, I mean that could have turned her septic and, by the way, she had seen a doctor and he was, um you know, lacking perhaps, um, perhaps, the capability to recognize that.
Speaker 1:And take care of her properly, right, because?
Speaker 2:I thought as a parent Where's the mother?
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know. I haven't found any information on the mom and because this is such a case that everyone right now in Texas is talking about, I wanted to make sure that we got it out tonight, like the child was poorly taken care of too.
Speaker 1:Okay, which again is like the abuse factor, but but does that mean you know you have? You have kids who are in poor conditions and aren't treated very well, and then it's abuse. And then you have kids who are sick and you don't know how to take care of them and she's misdiagnosed. Chris, she was misdiagnosed, which is why she was given some of these opioids and this medicine to treat something that wasn't even wrong with her. And so, being two years old, maybe there's other things they just don't know about that are going on with her but they were trying to save her life I mean, this was very frantic and but you know, she ends up, she ends up dying but what they believe is that she actually had died from severe viral and bacterial pneumonia that they had missed in 2002, not because of any abuse, but because doctors missed it.
Speaker 2:But they did an autopsy right. They did an autopsy and that's where the pneumonia was A chest x-ray will tell you if you have pneumonia.
Speaker 1:Well, they didn't have time to do a chest x-ray. I think she was dying when he brought her in.
Speaker 2:No, I'm just saying afterwards, like usually.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, they did. They found pneumonia in both lungs. Yes, yeah, but this is what they believed, and her illness then progressed to sepsis, then septic shock, which she went into, and they believe it's from the respiratory suppressing medications that she was prescribed during her last few days of life. And so the hospitals, the nurses, the doctors, you know when they're, when she's brought in, I mean, they said red flags went up at the time because he's not very emotional he brings in a daughter who is on the brink of death and you know, I guess to me it's like, if he's abusing her, why bring her in? Like why save her?
Speaker 2:abuse people in but she's but.
Speaker 1:But she's going to die and you've abused her so bad she's dying, that's how they um but your abuse are so bad she's dying. She's dying well, brandy.
Speaker 2:a lot of people bring their abused children to the ER. That's how they will determine that they've been abused.
Speaker 1:So Seems a little strange, though to me Not necessarily.
Speaker 2:People abuse people. They don't want them to die. I guess, so I mean as crazy as that sounds, but I, yeah, I would think so.
Speaker 1:Well, we know he is autistic, chris. Um, that came out and they believe that that had the emotional disconnect while he was in the hospital. Um, they made a determination very early on that that they believed it was shaken baby syndrome. She had bruising which they believe possibly was from the fall of from the bed. Um, there were other things that were happening with the sepsis that they said that with the skin and the way, I think you might bloat up a little bit. So there were things with going on in her body that they didn't think were really looked into and that they just made a determination that this is exactly what happened to her and they honed in on him from the very beginning.
Speaker 1:Chris, 34 scientific and medical experts have wrote to the board okay, this is before today written letters to the board explaining that if Nikki died today, no doctor would consider shaken baby syndrome. So that I mean 34 medical experts. I mean, who on death row has this kind of support? Show me, because it's incredible. They believe Nikki's pneumonia, with the extreme levels of the dangerous medications that was found in her autopsy right. So now they know they've been banned from children not to give kids codeine. Again, I don't know what the drug was. But I do know that codeine was changed around that time for a long time to get this guy at least another chance at life. And he says quote I was wrong, I didn't see Robert, I did not hear Robert.
Speaker 1:I can tell you now he is a good man, he is a kind man, he is a gracious man and he did not do what the state of Texas and I accused him of, john Grisham, wrote recently in the Palestine Herald Press. Nikki's death was a tragedy, not a crime. Robert Robertson may be out of options unless Texas authorizes recognition, the end, recognize the injustice of Mr Robertson's conviction and death sentence, reverse course and grant him a new trial. Chris, we have not heard yet. At 9.25 pm on Wednesday, governor Abbott has not said anything about this case. We will see tomorrow if anything comes from Austin. Otherwise he is set to be executed in the state of Texas at 7 pm on Thursday. Thank you.