Texas Wine and True Crime
We review Texas wines and discuss Texas true crime.
Texas Wine and True Crime
Murder at the Lace-Arlington's Elite Nightclub
Behind the glamorous façade of Arlington's elite Lace Nightclub lurked a tragedy waiting to unfold. What began as a routine morning for three employees in December 1989 transformed into a nightmare when a man with a gun forced his way inside, leaving devastation in his wake.
Jennifer Burns, a 24-year-old accountant, arrived with her roommate and colleague Sally Fogle for their morning shift at the upscale establishment. When day manager Clay Griffin joined them shortly after, none suspected they were walking into a deadly trap. After stealing over $11,000 from the safe, the perpetrator forced all three to lie face-down and methodically shot each one. Jennifer would not survive her injuries.
The investigation revealed a shocking suspect – David Lee Herman, a former Lace manager with no criminal record who had reinvented himself as a stockbroker. Described by former colleagues as "the best manager we ever had," Herman's transformation from model citizen to cold-blooded killer stunned everyone who knew him. What drove a seemingly normal man to such a brutal act? During questioning, Herman admitted the crime gave him a sense of power he had never experienced before.
This compelling case study in criminal psychology illuminates how someone can maintain a perfectly normal exterior while harboring deadly capabilities. It's a sobering reminder that sometimes those who appear most ordinary can commit the most extraordinary acts of violence when driven by unfulfilled desires for power, status, and control.
Herman was executed in 1997 after a failed suicide attempt the day before his scheduled execution, bringing a final chapter to a case that continues to haunt Arlington's history. We explore the full timeline, the investigation breakthroughs, and the disturbing psychological aspects that make this case so unforgettable.
Have you encountered cases where seemingly normal people commit shocking crimes? Share your thoughts with us and subscribe for more explorations into the complex psychology behind true crime cases.
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Welcome all of you wine and true crime lovers. I'm Brandi.
Speaker 2:And I'm Chris.
Speaker 1:And this is Texas Wine and True Crime. Thank you for being here, friends, for this week's episode, the Lace Nightclub. Hey Chris, hey Brandi. So this week we are sipping on a very special treat from our friends at Robert Clay Vineyards.
Speaker 2:And a very special treat it was.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was, and we felt so VIP, so special for getting a beautiful blend before they released it out to the public. So we took it home and you paired it with a dish for this episode. So tell us what? You served up? Very hearty, juicy wine, and so I decided to grill a big old fat T-bone and then I topped it actually not paired it, but topped it with a hatch chili and a walk-in cheese shrimp gratin. And then I made some stuffed mushrooms with a walk-in cheese and pistachios, kind of like a New Mexico flair, I guess you could say, and a little bit of bacon on those as well. And then we did some fire-ro roasted cauliflower that I topped with a kind of poached garlic and parsley olive oil. Little mix, a very simple light. But I felt like, along with the very delicious wine, that the meal also lived up to the deliciousness of the wine.
Speaker 1:It might be one of my new favorite meals that you made. Your topping sauce that you put on the steak was phenomenal.
Speaker 2:It kind of came to me in the last minute.
Speaker 1:It was so good, and not only that, we had the idea with the leftovers to put it on the mushrooms, and I did eat that. It was very good.
Speaker 2:So the sauce, the gratin served two purposes.
Speaker 1:It was delicious. She did an amazing job on that, so thank you, thank you, thank you for always feeding me and giving our listeners some ideas for their next feast. And thank you again to Robert Clay Vineyards for having us out. The live show was great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the wine was great. The wine was incredible. It was truly a fantastic experience.
Speaker 1:I mean we took a sip and looked at each other like really, I mean, it was that good, it was good.
Speaker 2:It was not for the faint of heart, but I tell you what it was. Oh gosh, just absolutely delicious Very strong flavors to it. Um, I shouldn't say not for the faint of heart. It was, uh, probably one of my, one of my top uh top favorite wines I've had. Yeah, it's good stuff, all the wines are good there, but that one was extra special um, yes, it was, and I wonder if it's out yet.
Speaker 2:I I don't think we asked when they were actually going to release it. We got a little side bottle over there. That was really special. We felt really great about getting that, so I'm not sure. I know it's been sitting around for a little while. Yes, it may have tasted delicious.
Speaker 1:Well, we're holding on to that beautiful bottle that they hand wrote on it because the labels weren't even out yet, right? So I'm sure they're working on that. The other thing I want to mention, chris, is the episode I did that Nancy Grace hosted. The Christmas Killings is out on the Roku channel. I did discuss the case out of Frisco, texas, and the Christmas Killings. Obviously this is more of a holiday series. You know, nancy Grace does a lot of victim advocacy stuff, so it's out. So if you want to, if you watch documentaries and you like watching Nancy Grace, christmas Killing I can't remember exactly what episode I'm on I guess that would have been helpful.
Speaker 2:The Roku channel again is.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's on the Roku channel.
Speaker 2:Yes, the actual Roku channel. Yeah, and the Christmas killing.
Speaker 1:Someone else. Chris said they saw it on Showtime.
Speaker 2:You just search for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think it also might be on Showtime. Anyway pretty cool experience. Thank you to all the production team that came from Canada all the way to Texas to record this and, yeah, what an also an honor it was really to talk about this case and the kind of dad that this man lived to be, and just unfortunate circumstances at the holidays. But thank you again for having me and it's called the Christmas Killings with Nancy Grace. Okay, chris, are you ready to jump into this week's case?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:All right, friends, it's time to sip some wine and talk some crime. The Lace Nightclub was an upscale nightclub right there, located in Arlington, texas. It catered, chris, to superstars, business executives, athletes. It was the place to be back in the late 80s in the Arlington area. Now I asked you if you had ever heard of this place and you said no.
Speaker 2:And this was a nightclub, not a strip club, right?
Speaker 1:Okay, so I was on Reddit and I was trying to find information about this place, because I couldn't find much in my general search and someone on Reddit described it as a strip club where you couldn't go to jail.
Speaker 2:So it wasn't a nightclub, it actually was a strip club.
Speaker 1:Why don't go to jail? So it wasn't a nightclub, it actually was a strip club. Why don't we just say, maybe lingerie, I'm going to just go out there and say that some of this lingerie was probably removed at some point. I mean, this is a very high clientele. I kind of got the feeling when it said a strip club where you couldn't go to jail. I thought maybe kind of everything goes kind of club because of the status and wealth inside, because we're talking about the 80s.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's why I wonder why go to the trouble, even wear lingerie? If there was that many strip clubs in Arlington I think it was a strip club.
Speaker 1:Yes, isn't that interesting, fun fact. Back in the early 90s there were 20. It's wild.
Speaker 2:I would say the name alone would allude to an establishment that there were scantily clad women present.
Speaker 1:So it was a nightclub, though it was kind of positioned as a nightclub and again it was the place to be seen. So we're on Wednesday, december 20th 1989. And this is about 9, 915 am. So we have Jennifer Burns, 24 years old. She is the accountant in the club. This is a young lady. I think wow, what a great position at 21 years old to be the accountant for this nightclub that actually had a. I had a like a um, a corporate headquarters to it. So whether it was maybe a part of an of another um, you know company that owned multiple clubs, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Excuse me, but I know this actually had a headquarters. Yeah, I think they um co-owned a G strings.
Speaker 1:Oh really.
Speaker 2:No, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm like, what is G-Strings? I've never heard of that. All right, we got Lace.
Speaker 2:Nightclub. So I don't know. I thought that was interesting too, that there was a corporate office. I don't know. I'll have to look a little more into the Lace Nightclub scene.
Speaker 1:I bet you we can. I this morning news. Maybe start Telegram, I can find some. All right, so we've got Sally Fogle also there at nine o'clock in the morning. She is one of the hostesses, she is the face of the place. So you go in, sally Fogle is the first person you see and she and Jennifer are actually roommates so they go to work together in the morning to the Lace Nightclub. Now Clay Griffin is the day manager. He comes just around this same time about 920, 930. So they are expecting him.
Speaker 2:Well, just one thing to point out too. This is what leads me to believe that it's not an actual, just a nightclub, because of the fact of what time they're opening during the day, that it probably was a strip club, because I'm thinking like uh true um lunchtime buffet yeah, you're so right about that but.
Speaker 1:I mean you couldn't go wrong with some of the buffets. I've been to one of some of these places no, you could probably go wrong no, well, I mean, I'm talking about the executive level of the food. Is I was talking about the food? I I cannot att I was talking about the food.
Speaker 2:I cannot attest to any of that food, so I don't know. I've never been to a buffet.
Speaker 1:Well, I actually went there for a corporate event, which is the only reason I know about it, but that's anyways. But that's where they held it. It was kind of in a private room starting at 11 o'clock and it was over at one like a quick lunch thing. But anyways, people do go there during the day, and not only that. So this is nine o'clock in the morning, so whoever is going to be the perpetrator in this, there is a leaning towards the idea that they kind of had to know the routine of these three people because they were typically there this early in the morning. So these two girls arrived first. Clay Griffin is kind of right behind them. This is like 19,. You know, this is like 89 is when they're working here.
Speaker 1:I believe the club opened in like 86 or 87. So it's been a few years since this place is opened and so they've kind of got a routine. And in fact a part of that routine is connecting with the corporate headquarters when something might not be right, when you know, talks to these two girls, so they immediately go upstairs when they're entering the building. Now, upon entering the building, these two girls are approached by a guy. So at this point we don't think they actually know who this is, because once they go upstairs and actually go into the building, they call the corporate headquarters and call the manager, who is a woman, and they tell her listen, we were coming into work, coming into the door and a guy stopped us and he was trying to get in.
Speaker 1:Well, eventually Sally Fogle will tell police that the reason she knew he was lying and the reason they didn't let him in was because he said he had talked to the front hostess. He had called up there because he left his wallet and she told him to come the next morning. Well, sally Fogle is the head hostess in the front and she knows she never spoke to anyone. So she knew immediately this guy was trying to get in the club and was lying. So they knew something was wrong. They let the manager know what they've discovered, who they've encountered, and she assures them Clay's on the way. So why don't you call Clay? Let him know that this guy is standing outside.
Speaker 2:So they do. I wonder why they didn't call the police instead of calling you know the manager?
Speaker 1:will the manager actually does?
Speaker 2:I'm just saying, though, initially, like somebody is trying to get in there that doesn't belong there. Yeah, corporate offices Definitely not down the street. Like I don't know, I guess they're young too, so uh, but I mean, like I just think, like what, what good could the um corporate office have done to stop somebody from entering the place? Like just being at that distance, versus like calling the police saying hey, somebody's trying to get in here and before we open or whatever you know you know, I think you're right about being young.
Speaker 1:I think you, they have a guy, clay griff, who's a little older, you know, the bouncer, basically the day manager, who's going to be able to control the situation. You know, maybe they just thought he would talk to him and the guy would leave. That's really the only thing I cause. I thought I thought the same thing. That's really the only thing I cause. I thought I thought the same thing. Um, but as soon as they call this manager, they end up calling Greg Griffin's house. They are getting his voicemail right. This is 1989. Uh, I don't think Clay had a cell phone. So they're leaving messages on his actual machine at home. Um, after continuously calling him for a few minutes, I think they know by now he's probably there, almost there, and he was. He was actually downstairs, approaching the building, leaving, getting out of his car when they were actually making those phone calls. So they start to hear that something is not right. They hear kind of yelling or aggressive talking coming up the stairs and they see Clay behind. Well, they see Clay being held at gunpoint and being moved up the stairs toward them. So they're in like an upstairs office. So everything's happening quickly.
Speaker 1:Chris, the perpetrator, starts telling Jennifer to load the bags of money that are in the safe. Everyone is frantic and they're just kind of hoping this ends soon. Clay is telling him you know, you got the money. You got the money. Now, you know, just turn around and leave. But then, after he has the money, he tells Jennifer to basically take off your shirt. So he's starting to show a little bit of force, show a little bit of control in this situation. So she does this and then he forces all three of them down on the ground face down.
Speaker 1:Clay Griffin will survive this attack and he will end up telling police that this guy makes a statement when he asked Jennifer to take off her shirt, that this is when the fun begins. He lays them all on the ground face down and he shoots six times. He hits Clay Griffin twice, he hits Sally once and he hits Jennifer three times. Now, when police arrive on the scene by the way, police are already on their way, because when Jennifer and Sally did not call the female manager back and she kept calling and they were not picking up she becomes frantic. So she will end up telling police that she made that 911 phone call.
Speaker 1:But Clay Griffin actually comes to, he realizes Sally Fogle is still alive but she's been shot in the, you know, in the head, in the face. But and he sees Jennifer who is laying there bleeding. He ends up able to get to the phone, calls the police, tell them what's happening. I mean, they're there within minutes. I was actually surprised that this guy did not get caught in this transition, because they were quick, the police were. They were quick, the police were getting there quick. So this all happens, chris, in the matter of like.
Speaker 2:So he just sneaks in, I guess from the front, like I guess he knew they had the door open because he followed them after they entered, I guess Right.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, he had Clay Griffin. He was waiting for Clay Griffin downstairs. He tried to get in and push his way in with the girls, but for whatever reason he didn't force himself in. They went upstairs. They told him no, you can't come in here.
Speaker 2:Maybe he was. He never left. I mean he was able to get in there basically, just probably through the front door, I would assume, right, I mean yeah, wherever Clay Griffin was entering, that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean they, you know, police immediately think this guy has to know that someone else is coming, because the two girls go inside and he has failed to get to enter, right, and I don't know, maybe because there was two of them, maybe because one could scream, and maybe he knew that there were people around, because there were eyewitnesses to this, to a person exiting the building, and we'll talk about that. So I don't know, maybe if he was just thinking that he would wait and that he had a weapon, because, remember, the women didn't say he had a gun, they didn't know that. So I think when it didn't work getting inside with them, um, that, and then he knew Clay Griffin was coming, I feel like that's when he kind of laid in wait, um, and just sort of, you know, took him over and then escorted him up the, up the steps to get what he really wanted. So he attempts to execute all three of them. Chris, like I said, clay shot twice, sally, once in the head, and Jennifer is shot three times, once in the shoulder, once in the head and once in the arm. Miraculously, like I said, clay and Sally are alive, but barely. And you know the manager had already called the police from that corporate office, so she had already sent help.
Speaker 1:I mean, police go into the scene. It is gruesome. You have someone who has come in to rob and then you have an execution. Now you see this in some cases We've covered. I don't know if we've actually covered the KFC murders, but we will. But you see this in the KFC murders, right, you see a robbery that has been a controlled robbery. They have the money but they are not willing to leave witnesses. And whether I'm not convinced that this was the guy's motive was to not leave the witnesses because they didn't even know. They didn't know who he was. We will find out that people knew who he was in that club, but you have to wonder why he would go to the trouble of doing that, because that totally changes.
Speaker 2:I mean he was to get caught. His sentence you know, versus just robbing the joint.
Speaker 1:So the eyewitnesses see who they think is actually an ex-employee leaving the scene. There are surveillance cameras everywhere in this club, but the cameras had been turned away from the eyeline of where the person would be walking through the building. So they now know this person was probably very familiar with the layout of this building, he knew where the cameras were located and was probably able to maneuver and to be totally undetected, because when they pulled the VHS tapes on these recordings they saw absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2:When he had time too to go and do all that. I mean, I guess from the outside would be different, but in stuff on the inside, I guess, just quickly knowing the layout of where these cameras were, and maybe completely avoiding him.
Speaker 1:I mean, they said they didn't even see him on any tape, like not even a glimpse of someone in some clothes walking. They, there was nothing. They got nothing from it. Uh, sadly, jennifer succumbed to her injuries and died at the hospital. Both Clay and Sally were still in ICU. They both can't speak. They're not yet able to tell police what they witnessed that morning.
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Speaker 1:So a couple of the things noticed. First morning brain fog gone. My midday crashes were way less frequent, not feeling like I needed a solid nap. Focus much easier to tap into my work and focus on what I'm doing. Caffeine dependency you know I match this up with my coffee every morning. So when I'm sipping on my coffee I am taking my magic mind and I can actually feel it working. And I told you this, Chris. When we first started taking that, I said do you feel that Like, do you feel this actually working? And I loved that. It is my coffee sidekick each and every day, as I enjoy both before my day begins.
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Speaker 1:And, of course, honey, because I love it in everything and I'm so glad that it is in my magic mind, because it provides a mild energy boost and balances the flavor profile. You just have to try it for yourself. And because we love our listeners and we love Magic Mind, we are giving 40% off your subscription. Ah, that's right, Hurry, hurry, magicmindcom, and use the code TexasWine40 and start your Magic Mind journey today. And start your magic mind journey today, All right, Chris. So the perpetrator was able to leave with $11,200 and then $2,000 in lace funny money. So have you ever heard of this at a strip club? Maybe this is just new to me, but this funny money was only allowed to be used in lace nightclub.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:So I guess what you do is I would assume you would give $100 real bills and they give you $100 in funny money, and then that real money would be distributed across the workers.
Speaker 2:Seems like it would be easier just to keep the funny money out of the whole.
Speaker 1:You know what, though, but what, ooh, I don't know. Ooh, you know what I just thought of. What if money is stolen, or what if not, like in this case? I mean like when the girls have the money, cause it's real cash they're holding onto when they're dancing, right? But what if they have this funny money, because it's real cash they're holding onto when they're dancing, right?
Speaker 2:But what if they have this funny money which prevents people from taking it, and then the club actually has the real money? It could be a way for, say, the dancer goes up at the end of the night and wants to cash in her funny money for real money and they've got two grand in their funny money and then Lace turns around and gives them $1,800 towards their funny money, and then lace turns around and gives them eighteen hundred dollars towards that funny money. So I bet it might have been used as a way to for the, because I in 1989 um, there was a lot more cash being thrown around, right, um, they weren't taking as much, um, you know, tax wise out of these dancers tips and whatnot.
Speaker 2:so you know you have to pay the house anyway a portion of your earnings to have the you know, the privilege of dancing there and so, um, I bet that was maybe a way that that was the currency inside. So, yeah, if you were a guy and you came in and maybe you got one to one for your dollar, but at the end of the night, when the girls got paid out, you know they had to go cash in their funny money. Then whoever's doling out the cash the house mom or whomever at the end of the night yeah, I know way too much about the interoperations of these places. I guess, and perhaps that was a way to get their cut and be a legitimate cut versus somebody who's got a big old wad of cash that makes and I'm sure it was probably more than $200 that they wanted for their cut. But I'm just saying somebody's got a big old lump of cash and then they're only given like a little bit. I bet that was why.
Speaker 1:So the house mom you mentioned that was actually Jennifer's mother. So she actually had a few family members that helped in this club and they all did something. And you know, that's what's kind of so crazy about this case is that family members of Jennifer knew who this was, even though she didn't, because she hadn't worked there long enough. People actually in her family knew who this was and you have to wonder, you know, if somebody else would have been there that day. You know they probably would have recognized him.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I can see hitting him in the morning too, because there's a lot less people there. But you also wonder at the end of the night that you know they don't go to the bank at two o'clock in the morning, when this club closes. So maybe they also knew that there would be a you know pretty. I mean 11,000 is a lot of money in 1989.
Speaker 1:Yeah, $11,200 is what.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's a pretty good take for a club.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then $2,000. So this is what's interesting about this $2,000 in lease funny money. So this told police. Is this person planning to come back and use this?
Speaker 2:No, I bet he could sell that to people you know you know what was he?
Speaker 1:what did he? Maybe it's just a souvenir, could be.
Speaker 2:No, but he could also too, like he's got, you know, a couple hundred bucks and funny money he can sell for a hundred bucks, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, but he's about he's just trying to commit three murders. So kind of weird that he's going to go back to the place and then sell it when they know it was stolen.
Speaker 2:I think it has some value to it.
Speaker 1:Maybe, Maybe to him for sure.
Speaker 2:For the strip club goers. I mean, that's a little hustle, and who knows I mean this guy wasn't very smart anyway to begin with for shooting the people. So yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's a few eyewitnesses in this case. They said they saw a guy in a mustache in his 30s wearing army fatigues. So they did a sketch of two and two people identify in the lineup. So a face lineup on paper as an ex-employee that is seen leaving the club that morning. So this employee was fired one week before the robbery. So we always talk about eyewitness testimony, which is the best evidence you can have when somebody actually sees this. You know going down. But people do make mistakes and they wrongly identify people. And this person is identified by not only one but two people. But Chris, they were wrong. This ex-employee was cleared after evidence showed he had a solid alibi and there was no way he could. He could have been at the club that morning. So I mean, you know we talk about eyewitness, but gosh, two people, but they were, they were wrong.
Speaker 1:So after Clay and Sally are in ICU for a while, they start to they survive this. Okay, thankfully they do survive. And this is when Sally tells the police that you know the man approaches her, wants the wallet. She knows immediately he's lying because she's the front hostess. He never spoke to anyone about coming to pick up a wallet and she said that they just hurried inside. They just stopped talking to him. They were already at the door and they just sort of just scurried inside.
Speaker 1:Now Clay and Sally will provide a sketch of what the man looked like and once this hits media outlets, you know a flood of calls just start coming into police. So they've now done multiple sketches which are very similar. Once you have Clay and Sally giving one, and then you have the eyewitnesses giving one, and then you have now people you know calling in. But, chris, there were four or five different suspects in this case. So they looked into this and they were matching that composite sketch and a few of these were very viable and but none of them panned out. None of them panned out until a man comes forward and tells police that an ex, basically an ex coworker, um, a stockbroker that he knows in Fort Worth, came to him later that day after the murders and asked him to embezzle money for him. Chris, that amount of money was $11,200. Not very smart. The man tells police what was he going to do with it.
Speaker 2:He basically wanted to.
Speaker 1:I guess, move it somewhere, so he wouldn't.
Speaker 2:Wash it or something I don't know, I don't know. I don't have all the details. It's not like it came from a bank that you would need to clean the money or like go wash it or, you know, exchange it for other denominations not denominations, but other, you know, numerically coded bills.
Speaker 1:It's kind of a weird move.
Speaker 2:I mean you got $11,000 in clean cash taken from a strip club. That was probably the take from the night before, like completely unrecorded. Yeah, Very weird.
Speaker 1:Like this guy didn't like sit well, he goes into this guy's house and basically this the guy goes to police and he's like man, he came into my house. He thinks I know how to embezzle money. I actually don't know how to embezzle money, but I agreed to do it because he started threatening me. He started telling me he knew how to find my kids, that he would hurt my family. So he gives police the name of David Lee Herman. So police immediately start looking into Herman's background. They can't find a single thing. They can't find a parking ticket, they can't find a traffic violation, they can't find jaywalking. They can't find anything. He has zero record. He's been a model citizen, he's working as a stockbroker. But then you know all of that right, all of that on face, and they're thinking there's just no way this guy could have done this on face. And they're thinking there's just no way this guy could have done this. But then they start putting other pieces of the puzzle together. One of those pieces, chris, was that the eyewitnesses saw a specific kind of car leaving the club that morning. David Lee Herman actually drives that model vehicle. They also find out he was a former manager at the Lace Nightclub. They also find out he was a former manager at the Lace nightclub. He worked there before Jennifer was hired, before Clay, before Sally. This is why they did not recognize him. But again, sally, or Jennifer's family members who were employed before she was there, knew him. The lady the manager lady that was actually working at the time of this who police were talking to about leads and questions about the club when they called her and told her that David Lee Herman was considered a suspect, she didn't believe it. She's like he was the best manager we ever had. He was nice to the patrons, he was good with the employees, one of the kindest and most polite people you will ever meet. I mean, how wild is this right? It's kind of crazy. No background, no history of violence, no, people love him. He's very approachable. I mean, when Jennifer's family found out about him, I mean they were shocked. I mean they couldn't even believe that the guy they knew could have done something like this and did he? But at this point they're starting just to put this together and realize that this might actually be their number one suspect. But now they've got a reason for an arrest and I feel like they had enough evidence. They were ready to move forward with this, so they actually get an arrest warrant.
Speaker 1:32-year-old David Lee Herman goes into custody. You know, quiet as a mouse. He doesn't even ask why he's being arrested. They, you know they. Just he sits down. He says I'll cooperate, um, but he's not saying anything else. He's not asking any additional questions, but the one thing they want to find in this case that they did not find at the crime scene, chris, was the gun Um. They were looking for the weapon. They did not find the weapon, um, but they were hoping, once they got him to, you know, to the invest into the interrogation room and start having conversations with him that maybe being nice to a nice guy will be beneficial and and it ends up being very beneficial because he? Um will end up telling them where to find this gun. So he buried it and he ends up telling them where it actually is. But he is arrested for capital murder and they're trying to find out about this guy. Why would a nice guy that everyone liked go in broad daylight, rob his former employer and then try to kill three people?
Speaker 2:Broke. I guess Ha being in the stock broking business maybe he got broke.
Speaker 1:Well, yes, there was some financial problems. After he left the club, he ended up getting a stockbroker's license and police think it was the. You know, when you work at a place like Lace and every night you are surrounded by people with money, people of influence, people who get attention, people who can have any woman they want because of their assets, right, and I think he wanted this life. I think that police believed that he was trying to be one of those business executives that he was serving in the club. He was actually very intelligent, I mean, he got his stockbroker's license and was trying to do well, but it just wasn't the kind of money and kind of influence to the people that he had catered to at that place, chris. So maybe it was a little bit of a fantasy world in his mind, because his then decision is to rob Lace.
Speaker 1:Right, he felt powerful, he knew that these people were in fear, so he actually told police that he he never had felt power like that, which is why he had told Jennifer to undress. He actually tells police he doesn't want to talk about it. He doesn't want to talk about what he had asked Jennifer to do, which was completely, you know, take off all of her clothes and so he just tells police like he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. But he does say that him being in charge of her, you know being able to control the room with the weapon, telling them all to get on the ground, you know having them in fear, you know fear for their lives. But on the outside world, chris, he's quiet as a mouse and meek and kind of barely speaks up and is uber polite. So it's just wild, it's just kind of interesting how people can just lose it temporarily.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and for not a very big take. You know, for the night Not a very big take, Definitely not a big enough take to end a girl's life you know, that's what I mean, like that's not life-changing money. You know who knows.
Speaker 1:So the tip came in from that co-worker who basically said he was asked to embezzle the money, but this was definitely the nail in the coffin. Police admitted that if they had not had this tip, it's likely that this case may not have been solved not have been solved.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's still the most bizarre thing that he would like to say that's clean cash money that has no way of being traced, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, what's also interesting about that is what do they say? Like, if you have a secret and you know, the only way for nobody to know about it is to not to tell one person or something, I don't know the exact same, but it's like he went and told someone right and that was his demise.
Speaker 2:I mean it's 1989. There's a lot of things that he could have just paid cash for and never would have been recorded. I mean, you can't have that kind of money and pay for anything.
Speaker 1:Well, he panicked because he went to this guy immediately after taking this money.
Speaker 2:That's what I mean. But yeah, you take a big chunk of money out and put it towards a house or a car and they're going to want to know where the hell you got that money from. So this long ago I mean he was like said by all accounts probably would have been in the clear if he had gone to this guy.
Speaker 1:So because of this tip, he is arrested, tried for capital murder. He pleads not guilty at trial, but the prosecution has the gun. They have the eyewitnesses. So the jury comes back and not just the eyewitnesses two survivors of this who will never forget his face, who will never forget his face. And so jury comes back and finds him guilty of capital murder. And, chris, he gets the death penalty for killing Jennifer Burns in this robbery the day before no, the day before he is no.
Speaker 1:See, back in the 80s I feel like the justice system was a lot more swifter. I'm just going to say that. I feel like, when I look at cases from about 70 to about 94, 95, I feel like when they set a date, they abide by those dates and he was actually only on death row. Probably, let's see, I'm going to say he was on death row. Probably, let's see, I'm going to say he was on death row less than seven years, which is very short compared to some of the people we see on death row today. The day before he is said to be executed, chris, he attempts suicide by trying to slash his throat and wrist with a disposable plastic razor, but he was unsuccessful. They brought him to the hospital inside of the jail and bandaged him up. He spent, I think, several hours healing from this, but they sent him right back to jail, to his cell, right back to jail, to his cell and they put him to death the very next day by lethal injection, on April 2nd 1997. So David Lee Herman was only 39 years old when he was put to death.
Speaker 1:But yeah, isn't it wild. I look at this timeframe. I need to go back in some death penalty cases and take a look, because I do feel like we have moved into this. I don't know if the appeals process was any different back in the 1980s. If there are now more appeals, I would be interested to find out about that and see if that's why the process for death row takes so long now. For death row take so long now. I mean there's some people who are sitting there 20, 30 years, which you know. Hey, we don't want to put anybody to death. That's innocent. There should be a pretty, you know, a certain amount of time, but cases like this they weren't wasting any time. They knew who did this.
Speaker 1:Clay Griffin has since moved out of Texas. Clay Griffin has since moved out of Texas, and Sally Fogle. She died at the age of 41. I think she had passed away back in 2012-ish. So you know she's been gone for several years, but this was just a very, you know, such a wild case and really such a well-known case at the time, with these three young people, you know, entering an establishment trying to do their job in broad daylight and you know they are robbed and you know Jennifer murdered and the other two barely survived. So, jennifer, you will never be forgotten until next time. Friends, stay safe, have fun and cheers to next time. Cheers, thank you.